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It just occurred to me that there is no such thing as , it's just doing what it's always done in different ways. I mean you can look at it as People Farming on the one hand. On the other, it's just companies like and getting free labor from us to create a product for Advertisers. As if this was the first time Capitalists have exploited people for their voluntary labor under false pretences. *cough* *cough*

@revkellyn This! It’s a way of avoiding going full marxist by isolating the phenomenon. Then you’re able to come up with an independent analysis without asking the fundamental questions about work, value, exploitation and alienation. Neoliberalism and crony capitalism are other popular diverting terms. I suspect US academic red scare but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@josef
You hit the nail on the head there! I listened to an interview on Democracy Now with the person that popularized the term, Shoshana Zuboff. I could tell that she definitely missed the point of Capitalism in general. I believe that Capitalism happens in stages. First we had Industrial Capitalism, then Financial Capitalism, and now Surveillance Capitalism. They are stages rather than separate phenomena. It's still exploiting people and the commons for profit.

@revkellyn
#survailiencecapitalism thought is disrcribing a specific aspect of capitalism that a couple of high influencal companies have kind of their main focus on.

Do you think the phrase is countereffective for portraing capitalism in general as a fault?

like sayn, look it's just the survailience that's so bad, capitalism is ok.

I never thought of it this way, but when reading your post, it reminded me on this.

"Neo-liberalism" and "Surveillance capitalism" are to "capitalism" as ActivityPub is to the web. A particular set of extensions that builds on the original in specific ways. "Crony capitalism" and "corporatism" are sometimes used the way @revkellyn describes, but they can also be used in communicating ideas that are "anti-capitalist" (by our definition) to people who use the term "capitalism" to mean a totally different thing.
coactivate.org/projects/disint
@paulfree14 @josef

@strypey
Yeah, so called Crony Capitalism is nothing but a nonsense word salad. Capitalism always involves profits and aligning interests with their cronies.
@paulfree14 @josef

@revkellyn I don't disagree, but my point is that depends entirely on what meaning one gives to the word "capitalism". @paulfree14 @josef

@revkellyn my understanding is that #AdamSmith used the term "free enterprise", and that Marx coined "capitalism" almost a hundred years later. But still there are plenty of people who seem to use "capitalism" to mean a system like what Smith proposed. One in which business people should never be allowed anyone near the levers of public government. Quite a different thing to what Marx meant by "capitalism", where businesses and states form one system dominated by capitalists.
@paulfree14 @josef

@strypey I'd be willing to say that most of the time these terms are being used, anti-capitalist ideas are not at the core of the argument but some critique of a capitalism taking the wrong turn. Naomi Klein has done it for years, watch her hosting Zuboff doing the exact same thing: youtube.com/watch?v=2s4Y-uZG5z @revkellyn @paulfree14

@paulfree14
I don't think surveillance capitalism is a bad term for it. Technically a better term for it would be Data Capitalism since they are basically using our data as the raw material for products they sell in the market. But with people in the last decade talking about Big Data and not being creeped out enough by it, it's a weak term. Surveillance sounds stronger because nobody wants to be watched without consent. But that's just like my opinion man!

@paulfree14
And to be clear, surveillance may not be always bad. But Capitalism is always bad because it is exploitative. That is how I see it and no one has been able to give me a valid argument otherwise.

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